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Friday, September 3, 2010
Young Artists in Love
A Conversation with Tyler Page and Cori Doerrfeld
One day during a time when I was pretty bored with the comics I was reading, I discovered Tyler Page’s Stylish Vittles: I Met a Girl. It was exactly what I needed to keep me interested in comics. Tyler’s honest narration of his college romance with a girl named Nanette brought back some fond memories of my own college experience, but quickly moved past nostalgia into becoming a captivating story in its own right. It also earned him a 2003 Eisner nomination for Talent Deserving of Wider Recognition, so I guess I’m not alone in thinking that. I met Tyler last spring at a convention where he shared a table with his girlfriend Cori Doerrfeld; also a talented artist. I bought a couple of books from her, one of which has become a favorite bedtime story for my two-year old son. Curious about their relationship, Nanette, the lives of two artists in love and their individual works, I asked them some questions and they were kind enough to answer. Michael May (MM): What are your art backgrounds? I know you both went to the Minneapolis College of Art and Design (MCAD), but what led each of you there? Tyler Page (TP): Like most people who end up doing comics or illustration, I've been drawing my whole life. It's one of the few things that I can't remember ever not doing. Y'know, you start doing it at such a young age and it just keeps carrying on. When I was a kid I was more into cartoons and the newspaper comics; I didn't start reading comic books until I was in high school. I think somewhere around middle school I started making my own comics. I was a big Garfield fan growing up and that's what I wanted to do – make my own newspaper comic strip – and I started making my own starring the family cat. While I knew of Batman and Superman and the others I was always more interested in my own creations. I'm not entirely sure where it came from, but when I was in seventh grade I started creating this sci-fi/fantasy comic in the pages of a blank notebook. I continued working on that through high school where I did continually more refined versions of this story and eventually put together my own comics at Kinko's (like so many of us do). By that time it was obvious that art could be a career for me, so I went off to college with that focus along with a long-standing interest in science as well. I did my undergrad at St. Olaf College (which you see in SV) where I started out as both a Biology and Art major. After my first semester it was obvious to me that I was more dedicated to my art classes than my bio class. I was enjoying the in-depth work I was doing there, but in a more casual sense. I discovered I wasn't willing to put in the hard work and long hours there like I was with my art, so I became just an art major. I continued taking science classes throughout college though just because I'm kind of a learning sponge. I think one of the greatest benefits of going to a “regular” college like I did is that I got to indulge my craving for learning and knowledge by taking classes on so many subjects. By my Junior year I came close to having a second major in English because of all of the writing classes I was taking, but it didn't quite work out. As far as art goes, while I was at St. Olaf, I focused mostly on painting and drawing but took as many other classes as I could. I really enjoyed doing lithography and ceramics and was particularly fond of the bronze-casting class I took because of all of the processes involved. It was a year or two after college that I decided to go to grad school and get my MFA so I could teach some day if I wanted to. That and as a lot of artists do out of college, I was feeling a little lost and thought more school might provide me with some direction. I was already working on the beginnings of I Met a Girl and decided that was what I wanted to do. I was familiar with MCAD because I grew up in Minneapolis and when I found out they had a Master's program the choice was kind of simple. I could get my MFA by making the graphic novel I wanted and not have to move out of town. By the time I started the grad program I had actually also gotten a fulltime job at MCAD, which is where I still work today. It was an interesting couple of years when I was both a student and an employee. It certainly gave me a perspective that no one else had. Cori Doerrfeld (CD): Art has pretty much been the background for my life. I have always loved to draw. (I still have some distorted unicorn drawings I made when I was three.) Throughout my school years I was always known as, “the kid who can draw” and thus was asked to draw any number of the popular characters of the time: Garfield, the Ninja Turtles, Aladdin, etc. Cartoons were my first love and for many years I was determined to become an animator. I studied a short time in high school with a very bizarre, but talented fantasy artist, but even right up until I left for college, being an animator was at the back of my mind. I chose St. Olaf College, a small liberal arts school in Northfield, MN because it seemed safe. (Just in case I decided to go with a “real” major like biology.) After four years, however, I graduated with a studio art degree and really no plan whatsoever for my art. A friend of mine was applying to the Post Baccalaureate program at MCAD and it seemed to me the place where I could finally study my passion: animation. I had also become very interested in children’s book illustration, so I applied, was accepted and spent one year at MCAD studying none other than animation and illustration. MM: Who are your artistic influences or heroes? TP: As with just about anyone there are quite a few, so I'll just list who comes to mind. Early on I paid a lot of attention to the newspaper comics as I said before. From that emerged my intense interest in Calvin and Hobbes. I think Watterson is kind of like the Charles Schulz for our generation: I can't imagine anyone my age making comics right now who wasn't a huge fan of his work. In fact, Watterson was probably one of my biggest artistic influences as far as comics go. It was the first time that I really saw any expression in the artwork of comics in terms of his brush strokes and how he used rough edges and let the brush get dry at points. It was an early demonstration to me that comics were art. I also admire Watterson for the handling of his career. He regained the rights to control his work and went out at the top of his game and that is something I hugely respect. I remember that when I first found out that Jim Davis no longer drew the Garfield strips I was completely turned off by that (I'm glad the guy made lots of money with his creation, but I can't abide by having your name signed to something that you didn't actually do). In fact a lot of the artists who influenced me are those I respect as well. The Dark Knight Returns was a revelation to me when I found it my freshman year of college as well as Watchmen. I have a great admiration for Miller's own work with Sin City as well and that work made a huge impact on me. I found Cerebus for the first time in college as well and greatly admire the amount of work and dedication that Dave Sim and Gerhard put into their creation. Another obvious one would be Will Eisner and it's odd to write that now, just after his passing. Had I done this before Christmas it wouldn't have caused me to pause. Luckily our college library was well stocked with good graphic novels and I saw Eisner's work for the first time there and quickly fell in love. I'm glad that I had the chance to meet him at an SPX many years ago and get his autograph and never imagined I'd be nominated for the award named after him. In terms of other artists whose work I've admired or who influenced me there was Jim Aparo and Neal Adams for the realistic anatomy, Sam Keith, Steve Dillon and then all of the classical artists I studied in College, in particular Michelangelo. CD: All of my major influences and artistic heroes emerged from what captivated me as a child. I grew up during a cartoon renaissance, a time when Disney, Don Bluth and Warner Bros. were creating some of their best work. The Muppets were also still at a peak and Jim Henson was probably my very first, true influence. The Little Mermaid was what made me first want to be an animator and I spent hours researching and copying Disney’s top animators of the time: Adreas Deja, Mark Henn and Eric Goldberg. Overall, my biggest influence would have to be Tim Burton. Edward Scissorhands and Nightmare Before Christmas blew me away and I still to this day would love to have even a small role in producing one of his films. Other major influences include Brad Bird (The Iron Giant is phenomenal), Brian Froud, Bill Watterson, Richard Scarry, Maurice Sendak, Edward Munch, Gustav Klimt, Chuck Jones and Hayao Miyazaki. MM: Tyler, I read in another interview how you came up with the name Stylish Vittles, but can you share that story for people who don’t know it? TP: You actually get to see this play out in Book Three: Fare Thee Well. One of my friends in college, one day when we were walking to the cafeteria, called the food “stylish vittles” in line with how everyone jokes about caf food being so bad. We all laughed about it at the time and the phrase stuck in my head. When I was looking for a name for the comic I did for my senior show it kept sticking in the back of my head. Eventually I went with it because I figured if it stuck in my head, then it would work on others as well. MM: Is there really a Nanette? TP: Yes. MM: Has she read Stylish Vittles? If so, what does she think of it? TP: I know that she is aware of it, but to what degree she has read it, I do not know. Actually, the first SV book was in danger of not being published. I worked on the books when I was in grad school and in the beginning, I had been using Nanette's real name, as I'd started writing the stories before the relationship ended. My grad school mentor had advised me to get permission from Nanette in order to use her name. Needless to say, a little mess ensued. I got a few threatening letters from a lawyer stating that I had to cease producing the work with her likeness, so obviously she was upset. At that point though, I think it was still very close to the end of our relationship and she was lashing out at me where I was vulnerable in an attempt to hurt me. I actually consulted the CBLDF and spoke with a lawyer and we decided to just wait it out and nothing ever happened. In the meantime, I went back into the work and changed her name and altered her appearance, which was the right thing to do from the beginning. Over the years I've had contact with mutual friends who think Nanette overreacted and those same friends have been nothing but supportive of the work. And realistically, it was never my intention to hurt anyone with these stories, especially Nanette. I have always felt like I was very careful not to do anything that would in some way harm her and I think I've lived up to that. MM: Cori, is it at all uncomfortable to read about Nanette in such intimate detail? CD: Ah yes, the big question. In truth, Tyler’s comic about his ex is what first intrigued me about him. At first I thought it was so sweet and unique for a guy to write about a past relationship. I read his first book right before we started dating and I felt like I had been given a guide to dating Tyler Page. 
The charm slowly wore away more due to Tyler than his actual comic. It quickly began to feel like he was too obsessed with this girl; why was he spending all his time drawing her when he could be with me, a REAL girl. 
After some emotionally bumpy times, the entire situation has come down to this: the comic book is just a comic book. Nanette is just a character. I no longer see her as a real person. I know that Tyler has dealt with his feelings about the real Nanette and anything he writes or has the “characters” do is just part of a story. Plus, I happen to think that the character Nanette and Tyler are pretty nerdy… so let the nerds have their love story. MM: Both of you, is there only One Right Person for each of us or do we have multiple chances to get it right? TP: I'm not much of a believer in Fate, so yes, I think you have many opportunities. It is romantic to think that the person you have found was meant just for you, but there is far too much randomness going around. Ultimately it's up to each of us to decide how we spend our life, and who we spend it with. Of course, that means you have to get out there and look! CD: I do believe that love is found in several places. I have certainly been in love more than once and every time it felt “right”. And even though after every break up I felt as if there could never be anyone as perfect as the last guy, I would always meet someone new. I guess I’m not a very romantic person, I don’t really believe in soul mates. I believe a person is right because you work well together and you perceive that person to be right for you. I know plenty of people who think they’ve met or married “the one” and everyone on the outside knows their perfect match is a total weirdo. I do believe in having that one love in your life that you are always haunted by. That’s what Stylish Vittles is really about. MM: Tyler, why autobiography? And why this particular story about Nanette? TP: Initially I started doing short, one-page stories in college as a kind of storytelling exercise. Those turned into autobio stories since it's easy to pull from your own experience. And then those one-pagers turned into short stories. I was still kind of head-over-heels in love with Nanette at the time and decided to write a short story about how we met and started dating. I'd already had a couple of stories worked out by the time the relationship ended and I wasn't sure what to do. Because I'd already kind of had my mind set on that particular creative direction it was hard not to keep working on it. That and the fact that I'm sure there was some kind of cathartic quality to it all. MM: How do you keep yourself so honest about the material? There has to be times when you think, “I can’t tell about that!” or are tempted to fudge the details a bit. Or do you fudge? TP: Honestly, the really difficult parts haven't happened yet. I've never really understood people who have a hard time being open about themselves. I know I was a little shy when I was younger but as I got older I found how easy it was to just open up. It was a great way to meet and get to know other people. The only thing I really ever struggled with so far were some of the love scenes; how much to show, what not to show, etc. In the end I decided to just go with the flow and be natural about it and try not to be too self-conscious. Pretty much everything that's in the books so far is more or less what happened. Where my memory was a little fuzzy I called on friends to help and when that didn't work I know there were a few scenes that I kind of mashed together, but the intent and outcomes were the same as in real life. MM: Has your naked honesty about your time with these people come back to bite you at all? TP: Not really. Though as I've gone on I've gotten more conscious that I'm writing stories about other people as well and I had to make sure that they would be okay with everything. 
MM: Tell me about the framing sequences, especially in All the Way. Is that Cori in the diner? TP: Yes and no. Most people have guessed that the “space” parts of the books are indeed metaphors, but they're not always sure in what exact way, so I'll spell it out here. At the end of IMAG, when my character talks to his counterpart in the stars (Astroboy, as opposed to Astro Boy) he's really just having a talk with himself, his inner self, or soul if you want. Some people thought it was supposed to be god or whatever, but no. So in All the Way the idea was that this other character, the Nan character or “Iris,” comes along and steals him away, which basically means that in falling “all the way” in love, Nan is stealing his soul. The other character is Galaxy Girl, and does indeed represent Cori. When Cori and I first met and she got to hear the whole story of myself and Nanette she had said how she wished she could have been there to protect me. So in Book Three we see her trying to save Astroboy... I'll admit that this part of the books isn't all I wanted it to be, and in reality it means very little until I get around to telling the real story behind the relationship: the whole ending part. It will pay off and be more meaningful at some point. MM: When’s Volume Three coming out? TP: I'm just now getting ready to solicit in the March issue of Previews so it will ship in May! MM: Can you tease what it covers? TP: Well, you finally get to see Tyler go home and be around his family, so some of what's going on at home gets talked about. The rest of the story is mostly about the fact that Nanette is leaving and how Tyler comes to terms with that. Tyler gets to go visit Nanette and her family over the holidays and then there is a wonderful re-enactment of all of the crazy things that happened leading up to Nanette's departure. I'm guessing a lot of people aren't going to believe that it all really happened the way I've laid it out. 
MM: Cori, as you know, Leah and the Owl is one of my son’s favorite bedtime books. Can you describe how it came about? CD: The idea for Leah and The Owl came to me one night when I was stuck in rush hour traffic. To pay the bills I currently work about fifty hours a week as a toddler teacher. This means that for ten hours every day I am “mom” to ten two-year-olds. As a toddler teacher you read many, many books. At the time, one of my kids’ favorite books was called Owl Moon. They loved the part where the little girl and her dad find the owl in the dark forest. I, being who I am, thought it would be fun to recreate the scene in the gym at our school. So I created a construction paper owl, taped it above the vent in the gym (so it looked like it was flying) and turned out the lights. I told the kids we were going on an owl hunt. So with a flashlight we tiptoed into the gym. 
Most of the kids were overflowing with excitement, but a couple of them seemed a little spooked, especially Leah. When we finally found the owl, Leah, who in fact loved the Owl story more than anyone, totally freaked out and ran from the gym crying. I felt really bad, so when I was stuck in rush hour later that day it was all I could think about… Leah and that Owl. The book pretty much created itself from that one thought, all the other details and animals stemming from my kids at school. MM: Any chance it’ll be published as a board book or something like that? CD: I actually first envisioned Leah and the Owl as a board book. Anyone who is around toddlers knows why… (nothing is safe with a two year old). The paper version is all I was able to produce, but everyone who gets a hold of it has asked me, “Why isn’t this published?” And I say, “Well, that’s a good question.” I would love to see Leah and the Owl published as a paperback and as a board book, so I will continue to research how to do that. Truth be told I am very nervous about sending my work out. Leah was created more as an experiment than anything else so I have doubts that it could really sit on the shelves at Barnes and Noble. I promise you that I will try… one of these days. MM: Tell me about Rabbit. It’s pretty dark stuff and very different from Leah. Where did that come from? 
CD: Rabbit is very different from Leah and it is from a very different part of my life. Right before I moved from my home in Illinois to attend MCAD my boyfriend of almost four years, a Minnesota native, broke up with me pretty much leaving me alone in a big city. I lived by myself in an apartment and was worked to the bone at MCAD drawing day and night. I met Tyler early in the year but as I mentioned before he was very distracted and still obsessed with his ex when we first met, so he really offered no companionship. On top of feeling alone was the frustration that my life was not going where I wanted it to go. I felt like my true self was being eaten alive by obligations to other people and sides of myself that I didn’t like. The MCAD Post Bacc program was very disorganized and did not give me any of the professional advice I needed to actually take my art and get work with it; something that still drives me insane. So pile all that together and you get Rabbit, which is essentially a self-portrait of that year. Everything in my life that was keeping me down, all my own fears, regrets, and depression that prohibited me from succeeding as I wanted to are represented by the character rabbits. And what do those rabbits do? They tear to pieces the one real rabbit, the true self until there is nothing left but a skeleton. Oooooh, so deep. MM: What other projects are you working on? CD: As far as other projects go I always have a million and one ideas… that’s my problem. I really want to make a sequel to Leah and the Owl called Leah Loves Pink. (The real Leah loves pink so much she would only potty train if her parents painted their toilet pink.) I also have a story I wrote called, Gerald McSmurdy the Nerdy Birdie that I really want to produce as a finished book. Other stories include, Toby Toboggan, Scram, Stu and Mindy, Beck’s Ball, How Manies?, the list goes on and on. All of the books have pretty much come about from being around my kids at school so much. I also really want to get a drawing into the Minnesota State Fair this year. Overall, my main project has been just to get my butt out there. I still have yet to send samples of my work to any publisher, animation company, magazine… nobody. That’s horrible! MM: What goals do you guys have for your artistic careers? Where do you hope to end up creatively? TP: I just want the freedom to do what I want and work on the projects that interest me and support myself with that work. Right now I'm working on developing a project that I'm hoping will get me closer to those goals, because once I don't have to rely on a day job to pay my bills, I'll be able to do a lot more. And also at some point, Cori and I have ideas about things we'd like to work on together. In terms of where I want to end up? I don't really think there's an end in sight. I want to keep making stuff until the day I die. CD: My ultimate goal of goals would to someday be part of the development team at Pixar. For now I would be happy to just get one illustration job. I really believe in the stories and characters I’m developing, so hopefully in the next couple of years, if I’m lucky, at least one of them could be picked up by a publisher. In a perfect world I would have a house where I would illustrate children’s books, finally start raising my own children and have my hands dipped somewhere in the world of animation as well. This year is my year of action… I will start sending out promotion packages, get a good website running and keep making little books for conventions in the meantime. I also have been working on a line of greeting cards and unique namesakes for kids. One of these ideas will take, or else! MM: Is it ever weird having two artists in the family? Are you both pretty supportive of each other or do you ever get competitive? TP: It can be weird but for the most part it makes sense more than anything. We both have pretty different directions we're going in and different ideas about our work and how we make it. In that way I think you could say we're both supportive and competitive. Because our work is different enough from each other's we're able to offer advice and encouragement and admiration, while at the same time trying to one-up the other. In fact we kind of have a running joke of a competition to see who will be the “superstar” artist first. CD: Tyler is the only artist I’ve ever dated because I always thought I’d be competitive with another artist, but that’s not the case. I think because our styles and thought processes are so different that we can’t compete. Tyler is very based in reality with his art and stories, where I tend to dwell more in dreamland. It has become an asset to date an artist because Tyler understands getting excited about a cartoon, or working all night on a painting. We can critique each other as well as brainstorm ideas. I hope one day that we can collaborate on one project as well. Truth be told I’ve helped him with his comic several times and I think that if he let me write and develop characters for a book that he could draw and ink, we could strike gold. MM: What kinds of comics do you guys read? What’s worth getting that people may not know about? TP: To be honest I haven't been reading a lot of comics lately. Ever since I started putting out Stylish Vittles my comics reading has really fallen. But what I've been finding is that I pick up a lot of books at conventions, a lot of minis and trades. It's one of the really cool parts of cons, discovering new and wacky stuff you've never seen or heard of before. I just re-read one of my favorites, Box Office Poison, which is good because Alex does such an awesome job with the characters. You read a few pages and suddenly you're really invested in wanting to know what happens to these people. It doesn't matter who they are or what they're like, but you just want to keep reading. And I think that's what all good comics do: they give you good characters that you want to keep reading about. I'm finding that as I get older I like comics that are more just about people and what happens to them, if you want to call that real life. I was a big reader of Strangers in Paradise up until a few years ago when I just kind of got out of touch with the book. And I liked it for the same reason: wanting to find out about the characters in the book. CD: Before I met Tyler I had never read a comic book other than Calvin and Hobbes collections. Now I find myself buying comics for my friends to read. Right now I am reading the HUGE Bone book that contains the complete story and I am thoroughly enjoying it. I have also read the entire Preacher collection (I cannot wait for the movie version of that). My favorite comics would have to be Blankets by Craig Thompson and Box Office Poison by Alex Robinson. Blankets is gorgeous and Poison is just such a great story. As far as rare finds, I have to promote my friend Sam Hiti who is actually receiving some good attention right now for his new book End Times. Personally, I love his mini-comic called The Gallows Noose. I also love any comic by Lark Pien, her style is great. I just hope people always take the time to check out independent comic artists. They produce true art; you know stuff that makes you feel. Oh yeah, and please all buy Fare Thee Well by Tyler Page… that is the BEST comic ever!
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April 22, 2008:
February 4, 2008:
November 20, 2006:
A Comic-Con without the Captain
